Check out this talk where Richard Dawkins calls for militant atheism here.
Its sad to see how fanatical even science can sometimes become... Though i understand where dawkins comes from, i really see no basis for some his claims. A lot of what he says applies well to organized religion as it exists today and has existed in the past. It says little about the true nature of reality itself.
Once you've seen that video, do take a few more minutes to read this concise, balanced and pretty apt response to Dawkins by Steven Phelps, a Baha'i scholar, here.
At some level, I cannot help but feel that if someone really has a grasp of the truth, the last thing he would be would be fundamentalist and imposing about it. And some of Dawkins' vicious acerbity seems not too different from the religious dogma propounded by many religious leaders today and in the past. But shouldn't understanding the truth really help us become more loving, accepting and at one with the world?
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Thanks for the link to the video! I actually find Richard Dawkins quite refreshing. I think he might actually be serving to expose the excesses of religion. I think he makes some very important points. Sadly, as we all know, sometimes religion is used to impede scientific progress, it can be a block to rational thinking, and it can be dangerously divisive. I think he's worth listening to. I honestly find much of what he says to be something I can agree with even though I'm a Baha'i, which makes me a "theist" (with a recognition that any and all concepts we have of God are bound to be inadequate).
I love this quote from Abdu'l Baha:
"Put all your beliefs into harmony with science; there can be no opposition, for truth is one. When religion, shorn of its superstitions, traditions, and unintelligent dogmas, shows its conformity with science, then will there be a great unifying, cleansing force in the world which will sweep before it all wars, disagreements, discords and struggles -- and then will mankind be united in the power of the Love of God."
Looking forward to that great unifying, cleansing force! Could it be that the New Atheism is some kind of precursor to this, because it's causing us to rethink our relationship to religion?
hmm...i heard it half way through...it would have been interesting to hear him expound further on what exactly he meant when he called himself an "atheist"...because his objections seemed to be to the traditional, orthodox, very literal "religious" views.
a friend of mine who's a theoretical physicist once said that most physicists he knew were atheists...but again, I didn't ask him to expound further.
cuz his opening line wuz kinda spiritual in a sense, if you recall...he referred to some sort of a purpose to his life.
anne - yes i totally agree with you in that dawkins' arguments themselves really hit at the excesses of religion. And as you said Adu, his objections are all to traditional orthodox literal religious views. The only problem I have with Dawkins is that he then uses those arguments to jump to a conclusion about the nature of reality itself - which is one of two things i find objectionable. The other thing I find objectionable is just his condescending and rather offensive attitude - I think its entirely possible to make one's point without getting nasty :) Steven Phelps seems to do a decent job of that in his critique of Dawkins...
Its interesting how he shows in the later half of the video that many studies show a negative correlation between IQ and religious belief - which just seems such a sweeping generalization, because there are so many levels of religious belief. I'd actually call such claims highly unscientific. Additionally, who ever said that IQ is the only thing that matters in the world... For he basically seems to conclude from those studies that because of this negative correlation, clearly there cannot be any value in believing in God.
Would be interesting to see a correlation between something like "niceness" or philanthropy, or kindness and religious beliefs. Arguably those are more important than IQ...
And oh, thanks for sharing that quote from Abdul Baha, Anne - one of the things that really struck me about the Baha'i faith when I was first learning about it was the strong emphasis on religion always conforming to science - and that anything in religion that does not, is actually superstition.
It is interesting to see what the effects of something like New Atheism will be... Maybe it requires someone as militant as Dawkins, as you say, to get people out of their inertia, and get them to rethink their relationship to religion... who knows...
Adu - I think when Richard Dawkins calls himself an atheist, he really means he believes in nothing more than a material reality. However in my experience a lot of people who call themselves atheists, on further discussion, actually seem to only object to a traditional anthropomorphic picture of God - and are pretty open to a picture of reality that is far more complex.
In this context an interesting interview...
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/586085?src=mp&spon=17&uac=120478HG
Dr. Dawkins represents a certain social outlook. He is a product of his society, or that part of society which consistently churns out MP candidates, OXCAM professors within the British context. I want to make a distinction between the individual Professors at these kinds of places and the social segment they represent to the outside world. So, he is only a product of the socially competitive forces that live and breathe and compete for positions which he holds. He was competitively successful within that context. His ideas represent that social viewpoint. Of course he has marshaled the school lessons, and the cultural cues, and the resources he has had available through his birthright and his position. He has a "message" but is it any more relevant than any other competitive message in the marketplace? In his role here he is just like another salesman, or MP in Hyde Park, nothing more nothing less. IF that is what you like, buy it. But I would be careful in implying, or believing that he has some knowledge that others don't have access or awareness of. I think people who don't have much confidence in what they know, and in what they believe, and if they are worshipful of the kind of people in society they see Dr. Dawkins representing, then they will be buyers of what he is selling.
Sorry to be Anon.
Steadfast regards,
Thomas in Japan
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