Reproduced below is an interesting - and fairly simple - logical proof of God's existence. The argument was originally developed by a Muslim philosopher, Avicenna in the 10th century AD, and has been reformulated cogently by William Hatcher. Should be interesting to chew on for all you logicians out there...
We begin with a basic proposition.
P0. Something exists (there is not nothing).
This seems pretty true, I'm sure you'd all agree... :)
We now define reality as the totality of actual existence = everything there is (or was or will be). A phenomenon is some nonempty portion of reality. Let us designate reality as the set V.
Next, we consider a binary relationship → called causality which may hold between any two phenomena A and B. If the relationship A→B does indeed hold, then we say that A causes B. Also, causality need not be direct - A→B is an indirect causality if A→C→B where C is distinct from A and B.
Now we define three kinds of phenomena based on the above notion of causality.
D0. A phenomenon B is without a cause if, for no A, does A→B hold.
D1. B is caused (other-caused) if for some A≠B, A→B holds
D2. B is uncaused (self-caused) if B→B and never A→B for A≠B.
We now introduce a second binary relationship ∈ which may hold between two phenomena A and B. If A∈B holds, we say "A is a component of B". Given B, if A∈B for at least one A, then we say that B is composite. Otherwise, B is simple (noncomposite). Composites are phenomena which have parts. All known physical phenomena are composites except, possibly, the elementary particles of quantum mechanics. A composite phenomenon can also be called a system.
Based on these definitions, Hatcher goes on to state three propositions he calls empirically grounded.
P1. The principle of sufficient reason: All phenomena are either self-caused (i.e. A→A) or other-caused (B→A; B is not equal to A) but not both. Put another way, this principle says that the question "why?" is always meaningful. Everything happens for a reason. It also means that situation D0 can never occur - a phenomenon cannot be without cause.
P2. The potency principle: If A→B then for all C∈B, A→C. In other words if A is the cause of B then A is the cause of every part of B.
P3. The principle of limitation: For all A, where B∈A, A→B does not hold. This says a system (which Hatcher represents as a set) cannot be the cause of its own components. A car, for example, (the system) cannot be the cause of its own steering wheel (a part), because the car does not even logically exist until the steering wheel exists. Thus the car's existence cannot precede the steering wheel's existence.
P3 also implies that a composite or system (that has several elements) cannot be self-caused - because if it were self-caused, then such a composite system would be the cause of its own elements, which contradicts P3. Therefore all self-caused phenomena are noncomposite.
Notice that nothing excludes that a component may be the cause of a whole of which it is a part. Also, P1, P2 and P3 are all empirically grounded. P1 says that if we ask "why B?" the answer "there is no reason that’s just way it is" is not acceptable. P1 is thus the fundament and basis of (scientific) rationality. It is the essential logical precondition for all of science. P2 is virtually a definition of the notion of complete cause and P3 is, essentially, a special case of the second law of thermodynamics, which negates the possibility of purely "holistic" causality, i.e., the transfer of order from a whole to a proper part, without any input of organizing energy from outside the system.
Finally, one more definition :)
D3. By God, symbolized G, we mean a unique, self-caused (uncaused), noncomposite, universal cause, if such a phenomenon exists (which is the thing to be proved).
Now every phenomenon B is a part of V (all of reality). This allows us to state P0 more compactly:
P0. V is composite
Now that we have this foundation, here's the meat of the proof of the existence of G.
By P1, V is either self-caused or other-caused. Suppose V→V. By P0, V is composite. Thus, E∈V for some E. But then, by P2, V→E∈V, which contradicts P3. Hence, by P1, G→V for some phenomenon G≠V. Like every phenomenon, G is a part of V.
Thus by P2, G→G. G is therefore self-caused. But this means that G is noncomposite (else P3 would be contradicted). G is also universal because every phenomenon B is a part of V by definition. Thus, by P2 and G→V, it follows that, for every phenomenon B, G→B.
Finally, G is the unique uncaused phenomenon, for suppose that, for some phenomenon G1, G1→G1. Now we have already established that G is universal. Thus G→G1. By P1, G1 cannot be both self-caused and other-caused. But G is a cause of G1. Thus, G is not "other", i.e., G=G1 as claimed.
We have thus proved the existence of a unique uncaused, noncomposite, universal cause, which we can call God. Note that being the universal cause does not imply G is the direct cause of all phenomena - but directly or indirectly, the chain of causation leads back to G eventually. I've omitted a couple of other definitions/assumptions, but the crux of the argument is given above. If one accepts P0, P1, P2 and P3, then it logically leads to the existence of G as defined above. Rejecting the existence of G therefore requires one to reject one of P0, P1, P2 or P3 on some reasonable grounds.
Which one would you pick? :)
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27 comments:
yeah, why does there have to be a single G that causes all of V? V could be separable into threads that all have a distinct root G_i.
btw, I believe that self-causation may be equivalent to saying "there is no reason that’s just way it is" :)
no, there cant be several different Gs - read the last part of the proof. because by definition, G -> V, which means G causes everything in V - all of reality. Now if there were other Gi, then G should cause Gi too because Gi would have to be a part of V. then Gi cant be self-caused.
also, i dont think self-causation is saying thats just the way it is. Remember, this is just a proof saying that some self-caused phenomenon has to be the cause of all else in the universe - this doesnt claim to describe the qualities of that phenomenon, or anything else about it - except that it is unique, self-caused and universal.
oh, so u are assuming there is a single universal cause to begin with? that's a pretty big assumption, no?
okay, then i guess i don't see a reason to favor "self-causation" as a more acceptable premise over "no reason, that's just the way it is". the answer "because G" to the question "why G", i do not find to be any more or less illuminating than "there is no reason, that's just the way it is".
if you don't mind, i'm gonna delete some of my previous comments that i later repeated, to make this thread less confusing to other readers.
well the question is, when you consider the set V in its entirety, how is it caused? Remember that V itself is also a phenomenon as defined earlier - so it has to be either D1 or D2.
Also, with regards to self-caused phenomena, one can prove (i dont want to paste that here, but this is known as Aristotle's theorem and you can find this easily) that there has to be at least one self-caused phenomenon to explain the existence of reality (assuming the fundamental law of causality).
Maybe another (better) way to think of self-caused is self-sufficient... And sure, just saying there is a self-caused phenomenon that causes all of reality doesn't say much more than just that, and so might not be very informative. And so of course even if one were to accept this proof, it would not be very useful in establishing one's relationship to that self-caused phenomenon, or say anything about how one should act etc. All it really does is establish that there is a unique, self-sufficient phenomenon that is universally the cause of all that exists.
Btw the complete proof can be found at http://william.hatcher.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/logical_proof_presentation_200309.pdf. This includes some historical background, and some other technicalities i omitted in this post.
So what I was asking was this, what in the theory prevented the following series of causations:
G1 -> a1 -> a2 -> a3 ...
G2 -> b1 -> b2 -> b3 ...
G3 -> c1 -> c2 -> c3 ...
...
where V = a1 U a2 U ... b1 U b2 ...
but now I see, what it is. It's condition P1, which says that V itself has to have a cause. It doesn't suffice that each of it's components have a cause :)
oops, posted simultaneously :)
okay, so now i get the proof, and i think it's correct. however, i'm not convinced of the premises on which it is based :) primarily P1, i think.
also, not sure about P3. what about chicken and egg kind of situations? the phenomenon of life is a result of the phenomenon of reproduction and vice versa, no? am i missing something?
This from Bhaskara (cut-and-paste):
"Hmm...
I think the basic ontology (assuming that there exist a set of entities called phenomena and a binary relation called causation) is itself problematic. Viewing the world this way is natural for humans, but, for example, if you look at the laws of physics, there's no notion of events and causes there - just the state of the world and how it changes over time. There's an extensive philosophical literature on causation, but the consensus is, I think, that there's no fully satisfactory observer-independent way to define this notion. This casts the whole argument into question - not its logical structure (which seems correct), but whether it is actually relevant to reality.
The definition of god as the unique self-caused noncomposite phenomena is also kind of vague, and admits possibilities that wouldn't fit with the standard meaning of the word; for example, it allows god to not be conscious.
Also, looking at the axioms, I have some problems with them as well :) P0 seems ok. P1 comes pretty close to assuming that which is to be proved. I also don't agree with P3 (no set of events can be a cause of a subset of itself). I think this is one of those cases where our intuition fails us because we're used to finite sets, in the same way that it fails us about the statement "there exists no 1-1 map from a set to a proper subset of itself" (which seems like it must be true, is true for finite sets, and is false in general)."
chicken and egg problems i think are illusory - i would postulate that they only exist in our mind, and are a result of incompletely understanding the causes of any phenomenon. If you look at the link in my previous comment, there is actually a proof to show that one can't have circular causation chains - A1 -> A2 ->... An-> A1. Apart from a logical proof, intuition tells me that these kinds of issues arise because of our finite knowledge of causes.
As for P1, I actually agree that this is the one that raises the most questions in my mind too (though of a slightly different nature :)). But lets take your proposed case of G1, G2 etc existing independently and having their own causation chains. If we consider the composite system of (G1 + G2...) then it would appear that this composite system has no cause in entirety (though each element in it has a cause). Now lets look back into the world and see if we have any such cases (remember, we are basing all these propositions on our empirical observations of this world). So are there any composite systems in this world where each component has a cause, but the system as a whole doesn't? I'd be hard pressed to find such a system. Lets first take a simple example - my car is composed of many different parts, each of which was made independently by a different manufacturer. But the fact that they all are together with the particular relationships they have that form a car is because there is a unique manufacturer that put them all together into that car.
As we go to more and more complex examples, we only need to extend the chain of causation to see that this always seems to hold. A classic example would be to consider you and your next door neighbor - though right now it seems like your existence and his/her existence is completely independent, and caused by independent chains of events (ur parents vs. his/her parents), if you trace things back far enough you will find that there is some common ancestor.
Taking things even further, ultimately every event that happens on this planet is contingent on the fact that the planet came into being in the first place (and many other factors of course such as the existence of the sun etc). So after much thought I would have to conclude that I don't really observe such COMPLETELY independent causation chains in the world.
The deeper question, though, I think, is whether this empirical observation is extensible to reality as a whole. Do the laws of causation even apply universally? What about stuff like singularities where scientists hypothesize that the laws of physics break down? Ultimately empiricism can only take us so far... So even though P1 is true in our observable world, can we extrapolate to all of reality? Who knows...
Ultimately of course, i personally believe that logical proofs of the existence of God will always be open to question in some way or another. I think if one could prove conclusively something like this, then one would have no choice but to accept it. But I fundamentally believe that there is a subjective element in the acceptance of the existence of a greater spiritual reality, and its intrinsically tied to our free will. And I think William Hatcher would agree... :)
Point being, one shouldn't anyway either wait for a completely satisfactory logical proof of god's existence - nor, if one is found (which to our limited intellect is satisfactory), should one attach oneself to it completely and then see that as the be all and end all of everything. There is much more (much much more) that goes into accepting God and a greater spiritual reality.
Btw, Hatcher also talks briefly about ontology in his complete proof.
also, wrt god not being conscious, as i said, this proof doesn't claim to give a complete description of god by any means - it just establishes a few characteristics.
and wrt to the laws of physics, i think its an open question as to whether they also are phenomena with a deeper cause (not in time, but in terms of independent existence vs. dependent existence). I don't think there is a conclusive answer - one could argue equally in both directions.
what do you think of P3, Nikhil? do you accept it without doubt?
oh dear. there is no hope. i cannot get myself to read it all and understand. my days of math are gone.
i will just blindly believe.
well, P3 says that a system cannot be the cause of one of its parts - which actually seems almost tautological to me. if you define system A as strictly being system A only if it has a certain set of components, then how could A even exist unless all those components first existed? As in the example, can a car even be said to exist if the steering wheel doesn't exist?
btw, maybe part of the confusion is the fact that in our experience causation is almost always linked directly to some sense of time. and so if one considers systems that come into being as a whole at one instant of time, then this might give rise to chicken-egg kind of issues, where one cannot conceptualize one coming BEFORE (in time) another. But I think a more broad definition of causation is independent of time, but rather focused on dependent vs. independent existence. For example we talk of God (assuming one believes in God) and creation of both having existed eternally - for all time. And yet one states that God is the CAUSE of creation - in that God is the independently existing being, and creation is dependent on God for its existence.
A good example of this would be considering an object and its reflection in a mirror. As long as the object exists, the reflection exists. It is not that at some point the object physically created the reflection in the mirror - before which time the object could stand in front of the mirror without seeing its reflection. And so there is no temporal separation. However the object is assuredly an independent existence and the reflection is a dependent existence - and so in some sense the object (along with the mirror) is the CAUSE of the reflection, and not the other way around.
yes, i feel i cannot accept P3 on exactly such eternal timescales that you speak of. P3 makes some sense to me if you are considering a finite time interval. e.g., this chicken came from this egg, which came from that chicken and so on i.e., if u are considering finite sets of chickens and eggs. but going beyond that, the intuition of P3 breaks down.
interesting object/mirror analogy...i'm still not sure what P3 means in the context of dependent and independent existences though, e.g., what happens in the case of symbiotic relationships...I need to think about it some more :)
ya, so firstly i think our intuition can't even conceive of an eternal time scale because we are so mired in thinking of things happening BEFORE or AFTER. most scriptures, for example, talk of God as being wholly removed from space and time - and that is something we can't even conceive of as we are stuck within this material world for now, within the confines of 3 spatial dimensions and one temporal. So when it comes to intuition breaking down, I feel like my limited intuition and intellect can't even fathom a spiritual reality that is outside the confines of this material world.
So yes, when it comes to intuition breaking down at these limits, I would agree, I have no idea if these empirical observations apply then.
Again, when it comes to symbiotic relationships etc, I really think that it only SEEMS to us like they mutually cause each other because of our finite understanding of cause. Obviously this is impossible to prove empirically, because we can't even understand the complete chain of causes that leads to the most insignificant of events. But my intuition tells me that this must be so - just as my intuition tells me that the chicken-egg paradox is an illusory paradox, for clearly they both exist in the world today, and at some point some creature slowly transformed into a chicken over generations, and ages before that asexual reproduction slowly evolved into sexual reproduction and ages before that chemicals came together to form the basic matter for life... Clearly there is a chain of finite (albeit many) events from the point of the creation of the earth that led to the chicken-egg cycle we see today - so even though within our limited understanding it seems like this cycle might have gone on eternally in the past without 1 preceding the other, this was not actually so.
Here's an excerpt from the chapter of the book where Hatcher discusses this proof, and gives some more ideas about what one can infer about God's nature from this.
http://www.onecountry.org/e102/e10214xs.htm
OH NO. Not this proof again.
The PDF I made some years ago about proofs of God's existence is now 8 pages. I'll have to send it to you sometime, but here is a summary of why Hatcher's/Avicenna's argument is not convincing.
Firstly, the logic is sound. The problem is that the premises are not compelling at all, and the definitions are not rigorous.
It has already been mentioned in this thread that the meaning of casuality is unclear. What does it really mean for A to cause B? Does this require A to be more complex than B? Is causation intimately related to temporality? Does the law of gravity cause an apple to fall?
What is meant by sufficient reason? Can I say that a plant is a sufficient cause for its fruit? Or must I also include sunlight, carbon-dioxide and water together alongside the plant as the cause? In other words, to what extent must the cause be a closed system?
I'm surprised though that no one has attacked the compositeness premise. Why must all objects be either composite or noncomposite? For example, can you tell me if the number "7" composite? How about, is "love" composite? Does compositeness mean topological connectedness at a particular point in time? What exactly is compositeness?
Going further, what is an "phenomenon", and what is an "element" of a "system"? Am I a phenomenon? There are statistics on the regeneration rate of humans showing that by the time you die, all the atoms in our bodies will have been completely replaced seven times over or something like that. So should Nikhil at age 70 be considered the same phenomenon as Nikhil as age 7?
Upon contemplating the many perplexing metaphysical questions that this proof raises, one realizes that defending this proof is surely a path leading to madness. I wish Hatcher were still around so that I could ask him how, as a mathematician, he could have possibly put up with it.
these are great questions - i agree that this proof is difficult to defend when applied to the real world, as its unclear how our intuition regarding causation applies to more abstract "elements" in this world. regarding your last question, though, i think i would say that we ARE phenomena - and sure, all our atoms have been replaced, but i think the underlying premise here is that a human being is more than just material atoms, and has a soul that intrinsically defines who he/she is. Forget this proof, this just leads us to wonder why a person at 7 considers himself the same as the person at 70 - what is it that, once all the atoms have been regenerated, still makes you consider yourself as YOU?
Ya I wish he were alive too - i'm sure he got a lot of questions about this proof, and no doubt we arent the first ones to raise these questions :) Would definitely have been interesting to see his responses.
Btw, its not entirely clear to be that the problems we have understanding causation of certain concepts are because causation inherently does not apply, as opposed to our own limited understanding of the notion of causation. When considering most physical objects/events, causation seems to apply and we can understand what it means (even if we cant determine completely all the causes of some event). Now when it comes to more abstract concepts (physical laws, math etc), its more difficult to apply the same notions of causation - but is this because there is no sense of causation, or because we just aren't smart enough to understand the subtleties of causation?
Btw, Hatcher answers a lot of the questions you raised, William - by causation he means complete causation and he gives an example of the "straw that breaks the camel's back" - saying that the cause of the back breaking is not just the last straw, but rather the 1000 straws before it, gravity etc etc. The fact that we can't list all the causes completely doesn't mean they dont exist.
Causation is also not related to temporality - its a logical succession, not temporal. For example, the integer 2 follows the integer 1 (but this does not involve any passage of time).
Also, in some ways it seems immaterial as to whether the number 7 is composite - all that i really care about is that the universe (which includes everything, including the number 7) is composite. What then, is the cause of the existence of all these elements in the universe, bearing the relationships to each other that they do (assuming one believed there has to be a cause).
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